Digital Horsepower PCM

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:37 pm Post subject:

Oh yea, I've never or can't remeber Ataping a stock car? But I've read on the nats site, about stock car with the 3.8 have KR? So I'm sure it happends. Another thing everyone should remeber is the more the car is modded and the more power your making KR gets worst for the motor. So a KR number is relavent
A) Take a 180 Tstat, 104 plugs, CAI, DP car (hell even a bone stock car) if you put a 3.0 and 87 octane and go WOT 0-130 (125 LOL) Car making 200-220 WHP stock motor. And you see 10+* or KR and only about 1-4 of timming adavce. You could do this 20 times and a row. Than take the 3.0 off and the car will be fine (not pop a piston) and you can mod it like normal from there. It wasn't going any "good" to the car, and I would take a motor this didn;'t happen to over one that did, But it will last with the light mods for 100K+ miles.

B) Now take hevy modded car 330-350 WHP: 2.8 2.6pulley, IC, XP cam, TOGs, sg4 M90, LS1 TB, CAI, ported heads. With thouse mods the car, can run 22-25 degs timming adavce with no KR on edit, PUMP gas. 1st thing I can think of to get 10* KR would be the IC pump fails. You do a WOT run 0-130 with 10* KR the stock long block will last thu that maybe 1-2 WOT runs.

Things that will get damage: Think of KR as taking a hammer and hitting your piston tops when you see the number on the labtop screen.
Rod knock. (detontaion impacts traveling thu the rods and beating the fawK out the rod berings)
Chiping the upper ring land off 1 or more pistons. (happends often, people don't now about it and later the motor destoryes it's self hiding this damage)
Cracking a piston. the skirt brakes off, Or thu the wrist pin hole. taking out the bottom end.
Exhaust vavle head. getting too hot and sezing in the guild open, and the piston hits it (snaps it off)

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:06 am Post subject:

When you get the CASE learn make sure you tell them MANY MANY times to NOT reflash the PCM! And if at all possible have them put it in writing so that if they do, the place is responsible for replacement of the PCM.

Now go out and drive the car....punch it from 35 and then again from 75-80....you'll love what it does!

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject:

I just got back home from my CASE learn and it cost only $30. I went for a few hard runs and WOW what a difference, I love it!! I'm hitting the highway later to see what it does and enjoy this mod.
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2000 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP
VS|TOGâ€™s|ZZP II IC|ZZP Stg II TB|Stg 4 Gen III|2.8 MPS

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:00 pm Post subject:

This was a good thread. Its nice to see two sides discussed about the great PCM debate.
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Good Bye.
BHO sucks.

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject:

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject:

Cool, have fun. But remeber the WOT downshifts arn't doing any good for the trans. So get the 40 WOT skip shift out of you system now, then try to aviod it.

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject:

John, I think of Knock as hitting the pistons with a hammer, (not knock retard)
, and this IS very bad. In the older cars that did not have computer controlled timing advance, just vacuum advance, you were much more prone to seeing actuall knock. I heard it in some of my 60's cars with that audiable warning you knew you better put higher octane gas in your car and check your ignition system. If you didn;t you ran a great risk of damaging your engine.
I think of knock retard as the computer automatically retarding your timing when the KR SENSORS detect the niose of knock starting to occure.
Or in your case of hammer hitting piston, the computer pulls the piston or hammer away from each other just before they hit. So if you design a PCM' you make sure they can pull timing back fast enough and in the right amount to pervent KNOCK from happening. I think I heard a stock PCM is capable of pulling 10 degrees of timing, and the custom ones even more.
Knock sensores are basically microphones thst detect noise in the decible range the designers identify as being knock in that motor. This is what makes me wonder when you say the car you A tapped with the Intense PCM pulled no timing, stayed at 19 degrees of ingnition timing and showed lots of KR, that would be BAD. It is much different then what I have seen.
The Intense (and the DHP) PCM's I have A tapped have all lowered timing when KR is present and increased it as KR deminished, just as I would expect.
I think Larry has A tap logs of his Intense PCM as he was running it the last day of racing at NYIRP last sunday, he ran very close to his PB at Norwalk with much less traction so I guess he is also happy with his Intense PCM. He has his DHP PCM (which he ran at Norwalk) also and is happy with it, as far as I know.
I do not have my DHP PCM for sale from my 01 GTP so I am happy with it also and will keep it with the Intense PCM set up for the 01
My point is and was Intense PCM's are a good and cost effective alternative to DHP PCM's and in my experience of A taping cars with both they work very much the same. I see no danger in running a Intense PCM as stated (or a DHP) as long as it is programmed for your mod level. It is the buyers desision.
_________________
2001 Silver GTP coup 11.880@116.17 Fun Driver
1998 SilverMyst GTP sedan 13.716 Sold
2010 Black Camaro Daily Driver
1969 Firebird convertible 455 FUN

Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject:

God, I almost forgot about Devilmaycry getting his PCM!!!! This IS his thread. All I can say is "AINT IT GREAT"
Doug

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject:

They don't detect the nosie of knock starting to ocurr.

They pick up knock. So your motor in nocking. And when going WOT for a exended period of time, and your getting 2-6* or KR. The Kock recovery is aways tring to add a little of the timming back every sec. There's no way the knock recovery would happen if it wasn't. So KR number is always behind the actule nuber of timming needed to be pulled. So no knock hapening. It's better than not having any KR system, but the motor is still knocking and damage is ocurring, Over not having any knock and the KR system doing it's job.

The intense PCM car I Atapped, had a working KR system. It's pulled timming in KR. To about what the car and 90% of other cars can use a safe timming advace without knocking. That dosn't imply thats the numbers are perfecty fine doing this? Thats like saying it's O.K. to have your PCM coded for giving you at WOT 89* of timing adavce. And having the KR set up to be able to pull up to 80* timming as KR. Thats silly.

RPM IngTiming KR
3650 15* 74 *
4100 15* 74*
4550 14.5* 74.5*
4900 13* 76*
5050 13* 76*
5300 13.5* 75.5*
5650 13* 76*
5800 12.5* 76.5*
6050 11* 78*
3500 11* 78*
3650 13.5* 75.5*
3800 14.5* 74.5*
3950 15* 75*
4150 15* 75*
RPM IngTiming KR

The PCM dosn't see into future, and remeber your motor at 6,000 RPM's thats really fast. That 3,000 times per min one of the plugs is lighing the charge. With the head start to TDC. (advance in degs of crank roation form Top dead center) The plug fires giving the combustion a head start before the piston gets to the top. Yea, it fires with the piston is traveling up. dosn't sound like a smart thing. The spining at that fast of a RPM the combustion is slow, so it gets a head start.
This all happens so fast I'd have to guess for every 3 deg of timing pulled in KR over zero(KR). About 1 deg. of timing pulled it was behind. And on top of that your always behind 1* from the recovery system.
It's hard to say it but, like. Lets say thu a WOT run your see the number "6" KR in reality if you could slow the prosses down. Knocking would have stopped with timing adavce pulled about 9* . not the 6 you see in the KR number. But it's all relivent.
The safest for a motor would be not runing, as running is wearing it. LOL

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:45 pm Post subject:

Well I really am enjoying the PCM... alot and girlfriend thinks its the coolest thing. She wants me to put some of the "RICERS" in my area in their place. The car does really fast now and I got the car up to 113mph with no problems tonight, I want to know how fast it will go now?
Johny Airbox is right though the downshift is cool(cause it throws you back in your seat)but its not good on the tranny. I love the feeling of the car now I think it was worth it.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:08 am Post subject:

You don't have any top speed limit anymore. The gearing will support "really fast" 150+. But the windrestined will over come your power before that. The stock unlowerd GP gets really unsafe and floaty over 120. The rear end can get out of contraol pretty easy just changing lanes too fast. I've has a few times now were I didn't feel safe going too fast. On the open Hiway, hitting small bumps in a slight turn.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:48 am Post subject:

Like Johnny said. Don't try going too fast, especially with factory suspension and tires.

As far as more mods (I think you asked about that in another thread), you can look at the 12" brake upgrade, sway bars and better tires.

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:25 am Post subject:

The Intense PCM is programed so you don't need to wire for the perf shift because I guess it can determine if you are "accelerating hard" does the DHP PCM do this or you have to wire the harness through? Is it easy, this is 1st on my too do list in the spring!
Adam
_________________
Adam
Formerly, 2001 GTP (5-15-09)
Currently, 2009 Twin Turbo BMW 135i Shocked

Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:48 am Post subject:

AFAIK,

For 2001:
DHP - Need perf shift pin added to PCM (ground == active).

INTENSE - By default I don't think they require perf shift and instead look for 75% throttle position. Or they will ask you for your preference. I told INTENSE that I had perf shit and they made my PCM so it used my perf shift button.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject:

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