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Jim Total posts: 104
Jim2005 Grand Prix GTP CompG Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Location: North Tonawanda Age: 17 |
 Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| But traction con. works with the rear wheels ( they see the frount wheels spin faster than they are moving). When trac.con. is on, the car lays a patch 5 feet long / with it off it lays out a 15 feet plus. |
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| Greystar Total posts: 1313
Pat2002 Other Car Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Location: NC Age: 93 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | | But traction con. works with the rear wheels ( they see the frount wheels spin faster than they are moving). When trac.con. is on, the car lays a patch 5 feet long / with it off it lays out a 15 feet plus. |
Thats not my understanding of how it works. Traction control looks to see if theres a difference in the wheel speed of the two drive wheels and if there is a signifigant difference it will pull timing. I could easily be wrong, but thats how it works AFAIK. |
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| studderin Total posts: 6272
John Csotello1998 Grand Prix GTP Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: 2nd gear burnouts Age: 42 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:26 am Post subject: |
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it usese all 4
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01z28, M6 NA, mullet, T tops, siqqqq |
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| GTP98 Total posts: 1787
Jay1998 Grand Prix GTP Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Location: b-loooooow Age: 43 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Johnny airbox wrote: | | it usese all 4 |
word.
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| studderin Total posts: 6272
John Csotello1998 Grand Prix GTP Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: 2nd gear burnouts Age: 42 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| And you guys know you can use GTPhorsepower.com to host vids, free. I htink there limit is like 8mbs tho. |
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| redross17 Total posts: 3600
Brian Ross2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Location: Buffalo Age: 48 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Greystar wrote: | | Jim wrote: | | But traction con. works with the rear wheels ( they see the frount wheels spin faster than they are moving). When trac.con. is on, the car lays a patch 5 feet long / with it off it lays out a 15 feet plus. |
Thats not my understanding of how it works. Traction control looks to see if theres a difference in the wheel speed of the two drive wheels and if there is a signifigant difference it will pull timing. I could easily be wrong, but thats how it works AFAIK. |
I would agree with Pat. I know Stabilitrak will use inputs from all four wheels, but traction control I understood to only pay attention to the drive wheels. Put TC on, and depress the parking brake. TC shouldn't kick in UNLESS one of your front wheels is spinning a certain amount more than the other. At that point, timing could be pulled and/or ABS engaged. ESP_guy (works on trac/stability systems) or maybe rlsedition (CompG/GXP project manager) on clubgp could answer this definitively.
Maybe things are different between generations, or I'm wrong...I don't know...but now I want to know.
--edit--
Doesn't answer the input question, but is useful:
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/fb.asp?m=1924098
| ESP_guy wrote: | | Again guys, when you push the TCS off button, TCS is off. pulling the fuse or killing sensors won't do anything more for you for traction. |
...talking about the 04.
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| Greystar Total posts: 1313
Pat2002 Other Car Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Location: NC Age: 93 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny airbox wrote: | | it usese all 4 |
I'm not sure about that. Are there even any sensors on the rear wheels? ABS ones maybe, but not wheel speed sensors? |
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| redross17 Total posts: 3600
Brian Ross2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Location: Buffalo Age: 48 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Greystar wrote: | | Johnny airbox wrote: | | it usese all 4 |
I'm not sure about that. Are there even any sensors on the rear wheels? ABS ones maybe, but not wheel speed sensors? |
04's have wheel speed sensors on the rears. |
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| redross17 Total posts: 3600
Brian Ross2004 Grand Prix GTP CompG Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Location: Buffalo Age: 48 |
| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. I stand corrected.
Per the 04 service manual:
| Quote: | TCS (NW7) (GT,GTP)
The tracking (sic) control system (TCS) compares front wheel speeds to rear wheel speeds to determine if drive wheels lose traction. The TCS activates when drive wheel speed exceeds speed of non-drive wheels by a calibrated value. This allows the driver to maintain acceleration and directional stability while accelerating on low tractions surfaces.
The TCS limits wheel slip during acceleration when one or more of the drive wheels lose traction. The brake switch must be off for TCS to operate.
During a traction event, the EBCM sends a requested torque value to the PCM over the serial data link. The PCM initiates an engine torque reduction routine to slow down the drive wheels. This routine consists of ignition spark timing reduction, fuel injector cut-off and transmission shift control. The PCM also sends a torque delivered value to the EBCM over the serial data link.
<malfunction info>
TCS (NW9) (CompG/Stabilitrak)The TCS is designed to limit wheel slip during acceleration when one or more of the drive wheels are accelerating too rapidly. Traction control will not have any effect on vehicle operation until the EBCM detects one or both of the front wheels rotating faster than the rear wheels. The TCS accomplishes this by two methods, engine torque reduction and brake intervention. The two methods are used together to control wheel slip during acceleration. Both methods are described below
<goes into VSES (Stabilitrak), and Magnasteer details> |
*EBCM: Electronic Brake Control Module
*VSES: Vehicle Stability Enhancement System
However, as stated by one of the guys who wrote the EBCM algorithms (see three posts above), if the TCS button is off, TCS is off--which I thought it was for Jim. The fuse wasn't pulled, but I thought Mike hit the TCS button. I know when the guy started to dyno mine, it was very obvious when TCS kicked in. |
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| Jim Total posts: 104
Jim2005 Grand Prix GTP CompG Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Location: North Tonawanda Age: 17 |
| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Well that was good. I don't know if it was turned off. I will have to dyno it to know for sure. Thanks Guy's for the input. Maybe I can get with the dyno shop for 3 pulls, I work 2nd shift so I could get with then in the afternoon. Thanks |
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| mguzzo Total posts: 2863
Michael Guzzo1998 Grand Prix GTP Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Location: in front of you Age: 57 |
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Greystar wrote: | | Johnny airbox wrote: | | it usese all 4 |
I'm not sure about that. Are there even any sensors on the rear wheels? ABS ones maybe, but not wheel speed sensors? |
ABS sensor is the same thing as wheel speed sensor.
_________________
1998 Silvermist GTP Coupe
Bone stock unicorn
1998 True Green Metallic GTP Coupe
Pullied, cammed, intercooled. With a kiddie seat. It once ran a 13 flat.
1998 True Green Metallic GTP Sedan (retired)
Stock: 14.33 @ 96.5
PB: 13.89 @ 101 mph |
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| 2fast4U Total posts: 1113
Gary2001 Regal GS Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Age: 53 |
| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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No one has commented on the "Grandpa" car yet....THAT is some sick torque! 
I am looking for ideas as to whay it gfalls so flat on it's face though, so shoot me a PM if anyone has any.
Gary
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| 2fast4U Total posts: 1113
Gary2001 Regal GS Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Age: 53 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Come on guys....someone wants to comment on my Grandpa car....I know you do |
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| studderin Total posts: 6272
John Csotello1998 Grand Prix GTP Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: 2nd gear burnouts Age: 42 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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what do you think about it?
[stupid serius question? I donno] |
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| 2fast4U Total posts: 1113
Gary2001 Regal GS Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Location: Niagara Falls, NY Age: 53 |
| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Johnny airbox wrote: | what do you think about it?
[stupid serius question? I donno] |
I was just looking over the dyno results and saw that I am right up there with some of you guys. The torque is insane hugh?
Who would have thought that my 80 - year - old - Something - Buick could do it! |
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