Digital Horsepower PCM

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:42 am Post subject:

Doug, you are correct! Johnny has never owned a Intense, and neither have I. We both run shitty quality DHP PCMs Wink

So lemme ask you a question....it feels faster but have you ever autotapped the 1998? Cause I know johnny has autotapped a car with an Intense PCM and......like ALL Intense PCMs........Had 19+ degrees of Timing with a CONSISTENT 6-7 degrees of KR!! that is insane, that is just asking for problems since the PCM is supposed to pull timing when it sees KR. Maybe the reason your 1998 feels faster with the Intense instead of the DHP is because unlike the DHP the Intense PCM isn't pulling ANY timing to compinsate for your KR?

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:58 am Post subject:

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:24 am Post subject:

Not to throw flames..

When I bought my PCM, I was more comfortable with a DHP because I had ran one before in my last GTP and also because DHP has a few more years experience in PCM programming.
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3.25/1.9/DHP/TOG/BORLA/M90PORT/

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:02 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:53 pm Post subject:

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject:

I know there has been alot of "yes" & "no" on the Intense and DHP PCM but, I ordered the DHP PCM yesterday and will be here 2marrow. I will be going to a Pontiac dealership on friday moring for the CASE learn. If anything I'll get the Intense on later if something is wrong, I'll just have to see. Ill let people know how it goes after the PCM is in and the CASE learn.
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2000 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX GTP
VS|TOGâ€™s|ZZP II IC|ZZP Stg II TB|Stg 4 Gen III|2.8 MPS

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject:

For devilMayCry you will be really happy with either PCM. So it's up to you after getting facts and options from people that have them. I think new there about $20 differnce. And you can get a used DHP v1 PCM pretty easily compaired to finding a used intense statard PCM. Seeing how either one your getting a used PCM, and your just buying the codeing. Used is a good way to save money on a PCM compaired to toehr mod type parts. And DHP has on there site the free VIN changer so you can edit your cars VIN# into the used DHP PCM.

DHP isn't as fast at intense as getting custom PCM work in your hands. I had to wait over twice as long as I was told get custom work done to my PCM, and they "forgot" to change somthing. So I had to send it back. Your not getting custom work so you don't have to worry about this. Even with poor custom service I recived, I will and plan on useing DHP for custom PCM work and other products they have over intense PCM work. Thats my option.
When I 1st got my DHP v1 PCM I had, a 3.4 pulley, The 1st style airbox, and a 180 T stat. I ran 2 13.9's at 99MPH the week before I got my DHP and lots of 14.2 14.0s 98-99 on the stock 98 PCM with those mods. I got the DHP v1 in and really liked the fetcures right away. Got a case learn that week and raced agian. 1st pass was a 13.740 @101 same 60's I think I ran 3 more 13.7's out of my 5 runs that day, and 13.8's 100-101 . I ended up taking my standard DHP v1 with other mods to a 13.1 @106 last year.
In a GTP about everyone gains about that added at DHP it's real world 15-20 hp. When intense 1st came out with there PCM there were 3 people that I know of that had the PCM blowup there motors. The posted on clubGP differnt post about problems with the standard intestse PCM. One kid posted his Atap logg when his motor melted a piston. At WOT he was geting 25 timming advace. And his KR was zero? His mods were like a 3.4, CAI, colder plugs, maybe rockers, and a catback. But he didn't have a IC or any big mods. The thread was delated ASAP. LOL Some were trying to say his knock sencor must have failed? But still the PCM should not be tring to give that car 25 timming at WOT. it was a error in the PCM code either way. And theres other post about cars getting alot more KR then they had with DHP's. It's a fact the the intense standard burm PCM try to give more timming them DHP v1 burn dose. DHP v1 is about 14-16 tiiming at WOT
I have a atap log I took from driving around about 15-20mins in a GTP with a intnse stardard GTP PCM. With a 3.4, open cone, 103 plugs, 180Tstat. I think that was it. at WOT the car always had constand 6*KR highset spike was 8.5 I think. Looking back at the log the PCM was tring to give around 19-20* timing, The car would only take about 13* advace at WOT before it would knock. So it was pulling the extra as KR. It's not safe. The car ran rich at idle with 16-20+ fule trims. But thim might have been form the 103 plugs witch are a little cold for a 3.4 pulley. it was also getting 4-8 missifires a min on cly #4 and randomly some poping up 1,3 and 7 I belive. WOT the fuleing was pretty good but I can't say for sure the car had a few small things I'd change (plugs to 104's new wires. no open cone). And not having the PCM try to advace the timming that much, The KR is slowing killing the motor over time.

Also the intense PCM have ther shift points higher (6,000-6,150) than a DHP (5,850-6,000) Every car will shift diffrently but thats the normal numbers. I don't see you as geing faster shifting that high with the mods for these PCMs. A cam is the majior mod that makes power over 5,900 and you should get a differnt PCM stage then these lowest stages. Your just wearing the motor out spinin it that hi, Also vavle springs get worked more, thous extra 200 RPMS can mae that lose contraol of the valves, and valvetrian.
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New Era performance

01z28, M6 NA, mullet, T tops, siqqqq

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject:

Yes I have A tapped my 98 with both PCM's. The DHP log's that I saved were done at the track and the Intense PCM one was out on the highway, so not quite apples to apples, but close.
The Intense PCM had 1 to 1.5 more degrees of timing compared to the DHP and about 100 rpm higher shift. Not much diff in KR. Knock retard veried from max of 3 -4 to 4-5, but so did the outside temps, which have a lot to do with KR . The only runs without KR were with 100 octane race gas. The extra degree of timing and 100 or so extra rpm's are most likly the reason the car feels faster with the Intense PCM. One run with the DHP PCM did have 18 degrees of timing but most were maxed at 17-17.5 at WOT . Both PCM's vary the timing, more so when knock is detected. The 02's get larger if knock is deteced also.
I have another log of a friends 98 GTP with a 3.4, RT downpipe and a CAI using an Intense standard burn PCM, warm day 93 octane and you can watch the timing advance and retard as the PCM pulls timing when detecting Knock (this is called KNOCK RETARD, you retard timing at the onset of knock being sensed) It's highest was near 5 degrees and timing was running between 13.5 and 17 degress with .940 02's. He ran several 13.6 and a 13.5 in two outings to the track
I did not tell someome not to buy a DHP 1.0, just in my opinion the Intense standard burn is just as good for mildly modded GTP's, and possible better for ones with rockers like my 98. I saved a considerable amount when I bought the Intense PCM. And the customer sevice is better at Intense, I get replys in hours to questions.
As for the motor damage in a customers car with a Intense PCM it was just after they started shipping PCM's, I remeamber that problem was only in the 1st level PCM, not the standard burn. Intense added a statment in their website telling people to start boost levels low when inataily seting up their cars with the higher level PCMs. They also contacted all buyers of the 1st level PCM's and next dayed out replacemnt PCM's with the problem fixed and postage paid to ship the old ones back.
I don't know whos car John was riding in but it is not acting like mine, Larrys or Joes with Intense PCM's, which are driven hard and A tapped . I would ask if the car John was in was getting false KR, did you see a reduction in KR when 100 or higher octane fuel was used? If you have false KR pulling timing won't get rid of it.
If you get a DHP make sure it is set for your cars vin number and correct year or keep your stock one for inspections in NY. I hope they can program them for the correct year now, as when I got mine they couldn't. The Intense PCM's are set to your car by year and vin. This is one reason why I bought an Intense PCM for my 01 GTP, so I can get it inspected in NY.
I got my Intense PCM this spring for my 98 and its been in my car for 10,000 miles now. The car now has 130,000 miles on it and has the original engine and transmission in it. I drive this car HARD, so if the Intense PCM blows up motors mine should have popped long ago. There are many people using Intense PCMs now and if they were dangerous they would be out of bussiness by now.
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2001 Silver GTP coup 11.880@116.17 Fun Driver
1998 SilverMyst GTP sedan 13.716 Sold
2010 Black Camaro Daily Driver
1969 Firebird convertible 455 FUN

Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:50 pm Post subject:

One of these days, I might actually drop a few bucks ona PCM. Maybe in time for IDD VI.

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject:

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject:

I have an Intense PCM and I havent had any problems thus far. Not that my car is highly modded or that I would even know the difference Embarassed

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:28 pm Post subject:

Just for the n00bies that read this. 3-5* of KR is not acceptable, or safe. Only ZERO is. But about 95% of people that have cars, that are modded at the level the 2 PCM in Q (DHP v1, Intense standard). The DHP car will see a little (under 2*) in the summer and days over 65* on 93oct gas. A intense PCM car will have more. Hense the intense PCM is coded for too much timming.

Doug, The car I said I ataped, wasn't getting false KR. Never did the useing race gas to check trick. But it wasn't false. The PCM was tring to give a tottal of 19-20 timming advace? The KR was avrage of 5-6* and the timing was at 13-15*. It never drops under 13 WOT thu 1-3 gear. Even on the KR spike of 8.5* the timing didn't go under 10*. So it's wasn't a case of false KR at all. If the knock sencors didn't see any nock (lets say it was flase) and pull timing ther is NO WAY the car could use the full 19-20* timming advace the PCM was tring to give the motor. I can't think of any car modded at the level the intnse standard PCM is designed for that could take that much timming? I told the owner, it's not right and to take the PCM out. Maybe he got a Intense sg2 PCM? But he said it's a standard?

I have never seen a DHP v1 give 18 timing? Back last year when My car and JonL's car were runing low 13's at 105 and about maxed out for the mods the DHP v1 is for. (3.25, 3.0 pulleys, rockers, headers, TB's) When we'd be using race gas we'd max the timing at about 16.5-17. And that was spoofing the IAT to say it's 30-40 degs out. I thinks thats all the DHP is coded for?

What have you other DHP user's seen? maybe I'm wrong?

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject:

My DHP consistently gives me 30* of advance timing! with 0* and an outside temp of 23* I saw a max of 31.5* of timing last winter.

OH wait I don't have one of those funky noise makers on top of my engine....so that doesn't count! Embarassed

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:16 pm Post subject:

Has anyone A tapped a stock, totaly stock GTP on at least a 65-70 degree day? At 100% throttle is it always zero degrees knock retard? I admite I have not done this, and so I guess I am not alarmed by 2-5 degrees of KR. Now please understand I know that KR is worse for performance (drag racing) then less timing to the point you just barley get 0 KR. The most timing you can run (and the leanest 02's) without any KR is best , generally, (gee, even to much pussey CAN be a bad thing!) But in my street driving I often like a smaller pulley then I can run on my daily driver GTP and see 0 KR, mainly because of the more imediate throttle response (see 40 mph WOT LAG)
As long as the PCM reacts quickly to Knock indecations from the sensores and is capable of retarding the timing adaquatly, and adding fuel, I don't see a danger with a resonabl amount of KR. Only at the strip is it a detriment to see any KR as there is a recovery time for timing and leaning out the mix, this hurts your et. That is why all the suppliers of PCM's brag about their quick recovery time from KR as compared to the stock PCM. And the amount of timing that a custom after market PCM can pull upon detecting KR has to be more then the stock PCM, because it will call for much more timing then the stock PCM and must be able to recover to pertect the motor.
As for the confusion between standard burn Intense PCM and first level, it confused me also. I don't think it was a great way to name the PCM's.
I only posted on here to let Devilmaycry know that he may want to look at the Intense standard burn because it was $45 cheaper and in my opinion is an alternative to a DHP PCM. I use both.
The statement that either PCM will make you happy is very true. I used to recommend the first mod's to a GTP to be a CAI and a 3.4 or a slip in K&N filter and a 3.5 pulley, then follwed by a RT downpipe or equvilent and then the custom PCM. Now after seeing more mildly moded GTP's reacting to the PCM's I have been saying PCM before the down pipe. Some of that has to do with the fact PCM'S are now $170 to 215 instead of $300+ and the down pipe is over 300. And most of us love the skip shift, and once you have it it is hard to go back.
Cheers, Doug

Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:54 pm Post subject:

I just got home from work and just got inside from putting the PCM in my car, it was so easy to do. It took a few seconds to start up, but it did. I ran my for 5 minutes to make sure everything was running good. My fuel pump sounds so loud now, it sounds cool though. I got a appointment at 10:30 tomarrow to get the CASE learn, and then I'm good. Now next tuesday I'm getting my my u-bend and resonator taking off so, I can't wait to get that done.

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